A good old-fashioned pie pastry recipe required, savoury/meat etc, not sweet!!

  • I have a few good recipes but just thought someone could add to my repotoire by offering up something that they really thought was the "ants pants" of pastry.I.E Something so good and not to difficult that they or someone they know could not help but write down/record and try at home only to vindicate what they first thought, namely that here was a pastry to die for, (well at least talk about for a while anyway). I watched my grandmother make such a pastry as I suspect everyone has a Grandma who similarly was a pastry expert, but unfortunately she died and no-one thought to write down exactly what she did. I remember she carefully and methodically kneaded animal fat from the previous days roast meat dinner to just the exact consistency she figured was right, together with sifted flour and a little butter but beyond that I am not sure. This of course was one way to get great meatpie pastry, what else is there??


  • ......not necessarily from personal experience perhaps( although ideally) but written up or described by someone else of some culinary experience as such a classic.


  • Hello there You are asking about one of my favorite subjects. Since you want "old fashioned" as well as good, I hope a couple of thousand years old is old fashioned enough. For your recipe we are going to the ancient Middle East. Never let a retired Egyptologist get hold of a question like this. It is bad for your waistline. It certainly has been for mine. You will find no research strategy as part of this answer. This is from my own collection. You are also previewing a book I'm slowly putting together as a gift for another researcher (if I ever get it done) Now then, off to ancient Babylon Sanbusak An ancient tribute to this particular meat pie goes like this: "If thou woulds't know what food gives most delight, Best let me tell for none hath subtler sight. Take first the finest meat, red, soft to touch, And mince it with the fat, not overmuch; Then add an onion, cut in circles clean, A cabbage, very fresh, exceeding green, And season well with cinnamon and rue, Of coriander add a handfull, too, And after that of cloves the very best, A hand of cumin, murri just to taste, Two handfuls of Palmyra salt; but haste Good master haste to grind them small and strong. Then lay and light a blazing fire along; Put all in the pot, and water pour Upon it from above and cover o'er. But when the water vanished is from sight And when the burning flames have dried it quite, Then, as thou wilt, in pastry wrap it round, And fasten well the edges, firm and sound; Or if it please better, take some dough, Conveniently soft, and rubbed just so, Then with the rolling pin let it be spread, And with the nails its edges docketed. Pour in the frying-pan the choicest oil And in that liquor let it finely broil Last, ladel out into a thin tureen Where appetizing mustard smeared hath been. And eat with pleasure, mustarded about This tastiest food for hurried diner out." From Mas'udi's Meadows of gold - translated by A.J. Arberry - from cunniform to Arabic and on to English- Islamic Culture, 1939. The modern recipe: - Sanbusak Dough - 4 fluid oz olive oil - lb. melted butter - 4 fluid oz warm water - 1 teaspoon salt - 1 lb all purpose flour - 1 beaten egg - sesame seeds to taste - clarified butter for shallow frying or olive oil for deep frying Put the oil and the butter together is a small heatproof bowl and heat over boiling water till the butter is melted. Mix with warm water and salt and pour into a large mixing bowl. Add flour gradually while stirring slowly with your hand intil the dough forms a soft rather greasy ball. One or two more tablespoons of flour may be required. Handle the dough as little as possible which means stop mixing as soon as it holds together. Filling - 1 finely chopped large onion - 2 tablespoons buter or olive oil - 1 lb lean lamb or beef minced (please note, "minced" means "minced" not something out of the grinder) - 2 tablespoons pine nuts - salt and black pepper - 1 teaspoon ground cinnamon or teaspoon ground allspice. Gently fry onion is tablespoon oil or butter (I prefer to use olive oil) until soft and pale gold in color. Add meat and fry lightly till meat changes color. Stir in pine nuts and fry 2 more minutes. Season to taste with salt and pepper along with the spices. Moisten with about 3 tablespoons of water or the meat will be too dry to fill the pies. Cook a couple minutes longer till water is absorbed. Traditional sanbusak are crescent shaped meat pies. Either roll the dough out thinly and cut into rounds about 5 inches in diameter or take walnut sized lumps and flatten out between the palms of your hands as thinly as possible. Put a heaped teaspoon of the filling in the center of one half of each circle. Fold the other half over to make a half moon shape and seal by pinching the edges tightly. Arrange on ungreased baking sheets and brush the surface with the beaten egg. I also like to sprinkle some sesame seed on top. Bake in oven at 350 - 375 35 to 45 minutes. They should be golden in color. - - You may also fry them in butter or oil until golden and well cooked inside (this takes only a few minutes and is the more traditional method of preparation) If you fry them, do not brush them with the beaten egg. - - - - This makes about 30 pies. They are great fresh from the oven or pan. The baked version is also good cold. ___________________________________________________________________ Now, if you want to really show off and have a very, very large kitchen - we are off to ancient Egypt. You also didn't mention just how large or small you wanted this pie to be. I doubt very much if you will ever make it, but it is good for conversation just to have the recipe around. I have eaten it, by the way. This dish (or a variation on it) is still sometimes made for Egyptian wedding feasts and large gatherings. If the translation sounds rather stilted, I guess the Greco-Roman era Egyptians weren't into 'slang' that much. "One of the most singular foods made in Egypt is that called raghif alsiniyyeh. Take 30 rotles (please don't ask what a "rotle" is) of wheat flour. Then knead it with 5 rotles of sesame oil. Divide the whole into two parts in a round shape of a cake in a copper plate made for this purpose of about 4 spans in diameter and which has strong handles. After that, arrange on the dough three roasted lambs stuffed with chopped meats fried in sesame oil, crushed pistacios, various hot and aromatic spices like pepper, ginger, cloves, lentisk, coriander, caraway, cardamon, nuts and others. Sprinkle rose water in which has been infused musk, over all. After that, place on the lambs and in the spaces left, a score of fowls, as many pullets and fifty small birds, some roasted and stuffed with eggs, others stuffed with meat, others fried in the juice of cour grapes or lemons. Put above them pastry and little boxes filled, some with meat, some with sugar and sweetmeats. If one would add one lamb more cut in morsels it would not be out of place. One could also add fried cheese. When the whole is arranged in the shape of a dome, again sprinkle rose water into which musk has been infused, or wood of aloes. Cover it over with the other part of the dough to which begin to give the shape of a broad cake. Join the two pieces of dough as pastry so no steam escapes. After that, put the whole near the top of the oven until the pastry is solid and begins a degree of cooking. Then lower the dish in the oven little by little, holding it by the handles, and leave it untill it is well cooked and takes on a rose red color. When it is at this point, it is taken out and wiped with a sponge and again sprinkled with rose and musk water and then brought out to be eaten. This dish is fit to be put before kings and wealthy persons when they go hunting far from home or take part in pleasures in far off places. For in this one dish is found a great variety. It is easy to transport, difficult to break, pleasing to the sight, satisfying to the taste, and keeps hot a very long time." Translated from Kitab al-ifadah wa'l-l'tibar If I may clarify anything, please ask before rating the answer. (I still don't know what a rotle is) Happy cooking and eating digsalot